Inside Stout
Inside Stout
A Conversation with Chancellor Frank
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On October 14, 2022, the University of Wisconsin-Stout celebrated its first Investiture formally welcoming Dr. Katherine Frank as its 8th chancellor.
Rachel and Emily sit down with Chancellor Frank, post-Investiture, to discuss her journey, the value of mentorship, the rule she lives by, and more.
On October 14th, 2022 , the University of Wisconsin Stout witnessed two instances of history. In one singular event, the university held its first investiture, formally recognizing its first female chancellor, Dr . Catherine Frank
Speaker 2Chancellor. Frank joins a legacy as the eighth chancellor of UW Stout. She also joins an impressive history of female firsts, which began in 1891 when the Stout Manual Training School would hire Lillian Goldsmith and Mabel Wilson as two of the first three faculty members. Honestly, we could produce an entire season on the incredible women who have left their mark in stout's history. But today we're focusing on just one.
Speaker 3I'm Catherine Frank , and I'm the Chancellor at Stout.
Speaker 1That's right. Chancellor Catherine Frank joins us to discuss her professional journey, some guiding philosophies, the value of mentorship and the rules she lives by. I am Emily Laird,
Speaker 2And I am Rachel Rimson. Welcome to Inside Stout .
Speaker 1All right . So Stout has had a lot of female firsts in its history, and are there any stories of Female First at Stout that have resonated with you?
Speaker 3So, I think everybody, I brought the book today. I think everybody needs to look at Women at Stout. Agreed. Um, and it, I don't remember when it was published. It was published 1991. Wow. And it's a tiny little book. Tiny book. Yeah . And so I'd love to see a new Women at Stout. Right. That was a , a much , um, thicker book cuz there's more stories to tell. Oh, yeah. But I think this book has a lot of firsts that are pretty interesting things that you'd never really , um, you know, imagine. Right. In terms of our history. Um, and then I was looking at stats in the back in 1891, I think there were two female students, and by 1991 I think there was about 200. And now think of us today almost 50% women. Right.
Speaker 2Wow.
Speaker 3Yeah. So , um, so I, you know, whenever I talked to an alum who tells me they were the first graduate of X program , so I just met one. Um , and I can't remember the year she graduated. It was in the two thousands, and I believe it was mechanical engineering, and she was the first female graduate of that program. And, you know, whenever I meet a woman who was the first graduate of X at Stout, you know, and it , and it obviously it spans the decades. Right. Right . Because that keeps evolving. And so I think that's pretty compelling because those, I mean, think about it. Think about being the only woman in your major, Right? Yeah . Think , or one of very few mm-hmm . Women, you know, it takes a lot of courage. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , it takes a lot of perseverance. Um, and so I think those are pretty powerful moments and our whole history of it as an institution has those moments. So, you know, lots of stories. There's lots of, you know , um, points in time that sort of change the trajectory. Women in certain roles , um, women in leadership roles mm-hmm. <affirmative> , Um, and there's still work to be done at Stout Things that I talked about during the investiture. So being the first, you know, female chancellor, that's, it's, it was 2020 when that happened. Right. Right. So that's a pretty , um, fundamental first. And you just , you hopefully change the trajectory for other women who come after you. So, you know, that's, that's what I look for. Those are the stories that make me excited about Stout. But I think everybody should, you can , you can look at this book online and it's an interesting read and it's time for a new edition . I
Speaker 1Agree. In the beginning of the book, they kind of, they do say that they didn't get everyone in here. Right. There's still more to be done. And like you're saying, and I agree, there's a lot of women that have paid a lot more pathways here and been a lot more first you'd be in the book. Right. So that's kind of exciting.
Speaker 3No , I'd be later in the book, but yeah. I would be, And, but there's a lot of women. That's one of the reasons why, you know, I said this again during the investiture last week. I said, you know, when I first came here, I didn't talk about being the first female chancellor. That was something I sort of pushed to the side. And it , the advantage of being here three years before I gave an investiture talk, you know, there's a lot of women who have, and a lot , a lot of women and a lot of moments during the last three years that have really reinforced that it matters and that I have a responsibility to the women who've come before me and the women who will come after me to speak directly about, about the role and to challenge our history , um, as an institution. Um, and certainly change our trajectory going forward.
Speaker 2I don't know how far back you'll have to go to answer this question thoroughly, but what inspired you to go into higher education?
Speaker 3Oh, the teachers. Yeah . Teachers. I , you know, I, when did I make the decision? I think I knew by the time I got to college that this was the direction that I was going to go in. Although I always have backup plans. Okay. In case I didn't get into graduate school or in case something , you know, you just never know. But when I think back to the people who made the big difference in my life, and I've always loved school, so yeah . School has always been an important thing, place, experience for me. It's the teachers and I can go all the way back to kindergarten and I can go all the way through graduate school. Wow . Um, and you can point to those people who you learn from. Mm-hmm . And who modeled what it meant to be a good teacher. And that's how I started. I mean, I was, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to teach at the college level, and I wanted to be a good teacher because I admired all of the teachers that I had had. So I think teaching was always there present. My mother was a teacher when she, when she started , um, after college, she was a special education teacher. Oh, interesting. And, you know, teachers of all sorts. Right. Librarians , um, people who would mentor you in outside clubs. You know, some are camp counselors are teachers , um, and then the more traditional K12 teachers, college professors, graduate school professors. Sure.
Speaker 1So when did you take that sort of turn to aspire to lead a university?
Speaker 3Well, I think that came with my first appointment. So I was hired as an assistant professor and a director of composition, director of writing. So I started my career with a foot in both doors, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> faculty member and administration, because a director of composition, at least in the institution I was in as more of an administrative role. And so I got to experience both pretty early on. And then I had really good mentors. So I had a chairperson who knew when he was gonna retire. He still had some time, but he, he saw sort of his trajectory and mm-hmm . <affirmative> what his timeline was. And he started mentoring me from day one to consider. Right. Moving into a chair position. Uh , and eventually that would happen when he retired, but he put opportunities in front of me to lead and to be successful in what I was doing. So if he knew I would need to get tenured and be promoted. And so making sure that the grant writing that I did counted, making sure that I was being successful in both scholarship teaching as well as in service and would be successful in, in achieving tenure and promotion, and then gaining the experience to make me a good administrator and encourage me to pursue that. Right. And so that's how it all started. So it , it really started from my first academic appointment at CSU Pueblo.
Speaker 2So, talking about that person that you were just mentioning that kind of mentored you, did that person or other people influence how you wanted to lead in the future? Like, I like how they do this, I wanna do this or be like this, or, I don't like that. I wanna do that differently. How did, how have those people in your journey since then influenced how you want to lead?
Speaker 3Well, I've learned something from everybody, good and bad, right? Yeah . Yeah . So even those, those challenging experiences teach you something about leadership. Yeah , absolutely. And I've, I've experienced, I've, I've been very lucky to interact with a lot of really good, amazing leaders. And then I've had experiences where , um, I haven't been in such a inspiring context, <laugh>. And , um, and you learn from both and you make mistakes along the way. And so, you know, the people in my life who I've watched go through challenging times handle, handle that , um, effectively, and they do it differently, right? Yeah . I've seen, I've seen difficult situations handled in very different ways. I've seen people go through very difficult moments in their own career trajectory , um, and come out on the other side really in an amazing way. And, and that might be an end of their administrative career and a return to faculty. But they've handled that transition in such a way that it's on the , you know, that's on their terms and according to something that works well for them. And they make people make different sorts of choices along their career trajectory. And so watching people handle those different sort of difficult, challenging moments and emerge on the other side of that , um, successfully Right. Um , has helped me to think about how you can handle different situations in different ways. I've seen people make mistakes. I've made mistakes. Um, and the way they handled those moments are yeah . Are really educational. Right. How does somebody own that mistake? Um, how does somebody , uh, recover from a mistake? How does someone learn from a mistake? And how do people handle mistakes poorly. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and so you just, you, you take these different moments right? From your experiences with different people as well as from watching from afar because there's role models out there that I've never spoken with, right? Yeah . That we all watch lead and we don't know them as closely as we may know a mentor. Um, so we may have a lot more questions, but we can still learn from observing how they respond to situations and how they surround themselves with other people. So I just think you have to be open and aware mm-hmm . <affirmative> of the opportunities to learn. You have to be willing to , um, actively seek out mentors. You cannot be afraid to ask for help. Um, you have to always be a student and an observer. Yeah . And you can never feel like you know it all because nobody knows it all. And , uh, there's always more to learn.
Speaker 1I would agree with that. I , I when you were talking about just kind of absorbing and looking for mentors and that type of thing, what resonated with me, especially, and lately I've, I've been like opened my eyes to this, is that we oftentimes think of leaders in our space Right. In the context that we work in. But they're everywhere. And you can have a leader or a mentor that works in a totally different industry, in a totally different space and learn so much from them as to how they navigate through the different challenges within their sector. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So based on what you've said, and I think we may have gotten a lot of this already, but from those past and previous experiences, your mentors, your coaches, what leadership advice can you offer?
Speaker 3I think you have to be honest with yourself, and you have to be honest with other people. I've always said with me, what you see is what you get. And I don't play games. Um, and people interpret that in different ways and have different ways of describing that. But that's just the way that I am. I, you know, that I am direct. I hope I'm straightforward in as transparent as possible. And my focus is on doing the best for the institution for me, you know, has always been an institution that I can do. Right. It's always with that at the center of the work. Um, so I think that's why you have to be in the business that you're in. It's not for you. You don't lead for you. It has nothing to do with you. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , it has to do with the institution or the organization or the group that you are lucky enough to be able to help lead. And you have to surround yourself with really good people because nobody, if a leader says they're doing it alone, I would question that. Right? Yeah . Yes. Because, you know, that's, that's why I wanna be surrounded by people who challenge me, Right. Who are not afraid to be honest with me and who challenge each other. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> right . To, to be better. And I think we do that at st at Stout as a whole. Um , it's not just about the cabinet that most immediately surrounds me, but it's about our institutional culture and a desire to, a commitment to continuous improvement. Right . It's something that I've never seen anywhere else to the degree I've seen it at Stout. It's really unique here and the sort of problem solving attitude and this desire to believe in who we are and the foundation that has created us, but to continue to be better, Right. To continue to evolve, to continue to think about the future. And so that's the , that's the , that's what drew me here. That's the mindset that I adopt for myself as a leader. But the minute you do it for yourself and you don't do it for the organization that you're affiliated with, there's a problem. Because leading is, leading is for the betterment of that which you have the privilege of being a part of.
Speaker 2I would agree with how you analyze how we approach problem solving and working together and kind of letting conflict and differences like push us forward. Because when I was a student here, I was in the communications program and then I, I graduated and I worked around here for a year. And then I applied for this job because I loved being here. I loved my faculty and I loved being on campus. I had a bunch of different campus jobs and that was the exact reason I wanted to come back. How do you juggle all of your day to day responsibilities and requirements, but still take time to think and dream about the future and make plans for the future? <laugh> <laugh> ,
Speaker 3I'm the worst person to talk to about time management. <laugh> . I , I mean, cuz I live my work. Yeah . Right. Um , that's, and I'm, you know, that whenever I, I do any sort of , uh, professional development around leadership, I'm , I say I'm , I can, I can talk about the importance of creating space for yourself and , um, giving yourself the opportunity to think towards other things. But in terms of work life balance, I am no good at it. But I've accepted that. And so I do carve out time for myself, which gives me that thinking time. Sure . In the sense that, you know, I , I have to be outside, I have to be active some period of time in a day. And , um, I do it really early in the mornings and I'm, you know , um, I like to run and I like to bike. More often than not, I run because just of time management purposes, <laugh> , biking takes longer. I , that's the, that's important. Think time for me. I don't run with music, I don't run with other people. It's a time where I figure out a lot of stuff because it all sorts itself out without the noise. And then, you know, I try to, I try to pursue things in terms of reading and sort of engagement in professional development or professional organizations that give me the opportunity to think beyond the organization, in this case stout . Right? Yeah . That I'm affiliated with. Because as we talked about earlier, mentors from different areas help you to think about how to apply things in different contexts. So if I can get out of the space of higher education and especially Wisconsin and Stout Sure . It gives me a chance to think towards the future. I have a wonderful partner in life. You know, my husband is very supportive of what I do. He's very stout in his own career. Yeah . Right. Um, and so he is a good thinking partner that allows me to think outside of the immediate context. It's creating, creating thinking time, Right. To allow, allow you to get out of the current moment and think beyond the current moment. But there's people who are much better at it than I am . <laugh> ,
Speaker 2I, I just started, cuz I'll usually go on a walk for lunch and I stopped listening to anything and I just was like, look at the trees. Like look at people, smile at people that walk . Like just get out of work for a minute, <laugh> . And
Speaker 1I'm so guilty cuz you know, I stationary bike every night. Yeah. And I know, oh , I stationary bike, I great papers and I write and I like, I still work and, and bike. And that's, but that's my, that's, that is me time. I'm air quoting that and I don't know, it's, it's not effective probably, but it's
Speaker 3What , what works for what's works for . I can't do that. Like when I , I could never read when I was on bike.
Speaker 1I , I know I read, I write.
Speaker 3It's, That's great. That if that works for you because it puts your brain in a certain different space. It puts you , I think I truly think that if we, it, it, it's a different rhythm. Right. It is. And you just make it work for the life that you live.
Speaker 1Absolutely. I, I couldn't agree more. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So we're kind of sort of branching into this concept of thinking about the future. So within this timeframe that we're living right now in this space of so much significant change both in the workforce and education , uh, what do you envision for the future of Stout? It's a heavy question.
Speaker 2<laugh>, this can be dreaming and scheming or it can be a serious answer.
Speaker 3<laugh> Well, you know, I , we have to solve the enrollment challenge. Yes . And so , um, in that is a lot of opportunity. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , Right. I would love , I I believe Stout can be 10,000 students. I've said this since day one. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , it almost has in the past. Right. 9,600 students is our peak. But it's gonna be really challenging considering all of the challenges that are facing higher education today. But I think Stout is up to the challenge, right? Yeah . And we are already in those conversations and we're already in the work. So, you know, there's incredible opportunities out there in terms of creative thinking around degree offerings. When we think about the Stout student, that's where we have to stretch our thinking. And we have a lot of diversity among our student ranks in terms of how students come in and out of the university. But we need to create more pathways for students to be able to do that. It's a different way of educating. We are still, the majority of our students remain traditional college going age students mm-hmm . <affirmative> . Right . But we have to actively create more pipelines for students who are wanting to study in different ways, wanting to learn in different ways. Um ha who have had life intervene in various ways. It's as simple as that. And yet that is very complex. So the work that Laura King's area has been doing in conjunction with more than a hundred people across campus. A
Speaker 2Lot of people. Yes .
Speaker 3Yeah . You know, it's the strategic enrollment plan which will be rolling out here. It's already, we're already implementing parts of it, but as a plan, it will become public to our campus community very soon. That is heavy, intense, complex thinking from a across campus. So in terms of the future of Stout, I think we as an institution know where we need to go. And then it's phasing that work to make it intentional, manageable, and strategic. In terms of the future. Ofout , I think you're going to see us continue to have a tight program array, but it's , that array is going to change, right? Sure . It's still going to see us being creative in terms of our online hybrid and, and brick and mortar offerings. The what that looks like, what that array looks like is gonna change, It's still gonna have us being leaders in the way that we advise students and the strength of our program directors and our program advisory committees. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . But again, roles are gonna be adjusted. I use the language of evolving. We will continue to evolve mm-hmm . <affirmative> as an institution through very strategic work that has involved the entire campus community. Or at least provided the opportunity for the entire campus community to be involved.
Speaker 2Going back to the enrollment issue that we're facing, I know that you were talking more about the recruitment and how we talk to students that are coming in for the first time, but for the students that are already here, the attention of students, I've seen a huge improvement to the student support units on campus even in the past three years. I know. Due to a lot of support from you chancellor. So I appreciate that. Like the new EDI unit, multicultural student services in a more central spot. I mean, I think these are ideas that people have had in the past and I've been here around for nearly 10 years now in this community as a student, as a community member, and as a , an employee
Speaker 1Same
Speaker 2And Right.
Speaker 1Yeah . As 10 years. Yep .
Speaker 2And yeah, I can tell a huge difference in how conversations are had about those things. About all, all different things that students need, counseling center tutoring, all of that. So important. And I, I feel like that's improving as well . There seems
Speaker 1Be, from the time that I started here till now, there seems to be more of a acceptance in the community. Yeah. And it's like a, it's a standard of community wellbeing that I've Yeah . I've not had the privilege of experiencing before that I know. Yeah . Seem to find.
Speaker 2Yep . I agree. So last question. I'm excited to hear this one. I
Speaker 1Am doing
Speaker 2<laugh> . What role do you live by? Work related ? Not work related . Yeah . What's the rule? What is it
Speaker 3I do the best job I can possibly do at anything I've committed to do. Right. Um, when I commit, I fully commit. Right? And that's, I'm not going to commit to something that I cannot dedicate the time, the brain power to support. And you know, I believe that, you know, I've said this before, you're doing the best job you possibly can do as a leader when you're working yourself out of a job. Now I don't wanna work myself out of a job necessarily <laugh> . Um , but that's the way I approach things, right ? What that means is you're building the capacity behind you, right? For work to be successful beyond your time at an institution or in a role. And some of the hardest things you ever do is hiring your replacement. So an example of this would be where we started this conversation. When I started I was a director of composition and a professor. And , and ultimately I would move into the chair role for the department. And I had built this program. I had been , um, a director of composition or director of writing for seven or eight years. And I had built this program that I was extremely proud of that had a lot of outshoots in terms of outreach into the community and other things. And I knew if I moved into that chair position, I would be moving out of that position that I had adored, right? Mm-hmm . <affirmative> . And that ultimately I would be hiring my replacement or helping or involved in hiring my replacement. But I also knew that I had taken that program to a point where I could continue to do the work, but it was time for somebody else to come in with new ideas to be able to move that program to the next level. Just like I was moving in a chairship role and moving forward in a direction that, you know, was unique to me and to my leadership. But you have to build the capacity coming behind you, right? You have to support new leaders in those roles. You have to be able to walk away from work that you've done in the past and let somebody else lead because you've done the best job you possibly can at that role. But we have a responsibility to create the capacity to create the opportunities for others to do really good work. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so that's it. You know, I work really hard and I understand that I have a responsibility to pay it forward in terms of building leadership capacity behind me.
Speaker 1Let's be frank. We approach this episode from a female first standpoint, but it's important to note the advice and guiding principles shared by the chancellor are not gender specific.
Speaker 2The advice she offered, approaches she takes and the rule she lives by could benefit anyone looking to learn from someone who has taken their journey, not just to the head of the class or to the department, but to the head of the institution.
Speaker 1It's a big job. And in recognizing that, we recognize how gracious it was of her to take, take time out of her busy postin investiture week to have a conversation with us.
Speaker 2Thank you for listening to InsideOUT . You can listen to other episodes by using the link in our show notes.